Beyond the Buzzwords
Are you drowning in tech jargon and empty promises? In this episode, we show you how you can cut through the hype and find the tech that REALLY works. Austin Lay (Reality Capture Technologies Manager) and Jon Ferguson (Vice President) from Layton Construction share how construction tech has changed – and why your workers are now the ones asking for the latest tools. We explore the value of dedicated tech resources for getting real results on the jobsite and focus on the problem-solving tools that deliver instead of overpromising. Plus, learn how innovations like drones and BIM have become the new industry standards you can't build without.
(upbeat music)
- Well, welcome back team to the Build Different Podcast.
We're in Scenic.
I was thinking of my word this morning,
Scenic Salt Lake City,
actually a little bit outside of Salt Lake City,
down at the late in office with Mr. Austin and Mr. John.
Thank you. - Thank you.
- Yeah, thank you.
- This is exciting.
I've been to Salt Lake a couple times,
but every time I come back,
I feel like I'm like going into a postcard,
like just tucked in the mountain range here,
and it's like, oh, these are what everyone takes pictures of.
You just walk back into it.
- It's beautiful, especially this time of year.
- I mean, we were looking outside of some of these trees
and it's like, wow, this is nice.
Scenic Salt Lake City.
Any other ways to describe it here?
- I'm numb to it.
Born and raised.
- I haven't done it.
- Don't say that.
I don't even notice the amount anymore.
- This is one of the few places that rivals South Lake Tahoe
where I'm coming from.
Come here, it feels like I'm kind of back home.
And the postcards in Dallas have no showing
of anything scenic.
- This is actually the first time
that Grant has seen a mountain in my life.
- Maybe Longhorns, maybe some--
- Like the jerry world.
That's like your closest thing to it.
- Yeah, that's man-made.
I mean, these are, I mean, you look around
and I think the trees I'm looking out out here
and the mountains, anyway.
Guys, let's talk about your guys on up trees either.
- To give someone a visual,
if you look through these windows down here at the end,
you can actually see Snowbird Resort,
the very top gondolas where we build some restaurants
and stuff, but it's really cool.
- Very cool.
- Unreal.
Anyway, Salt Lake City.
If you haven't been, come and visit.
Maybe this is a paid ad for Salt Lake City
flying to their airport.
I love that.
Well, guys, thank you guys for joining with us.
We are out here, just one, got a little tour
of the office is more, I appreciate that.
- Absolutely.
- And two, just getting to connect with you guys.
But I have learned to get out of the way for intros.
And the best elevator pitches of what you guys do here,
and then we'll get into some conversations.
But John, I'll kick it over to you.
Start us off and we'll dive in.
- Yeah, so John Ferguson,
Vice President of VDC for latent construction.
I've been here just shy, about a month shy of 12 years.
One of the original four of the VDC group
here in the company, so,
for better or for worse, I've been here the whole ride.
So, loving it.
Originally from Salt Lake.
- Right.
- Yeah, born just north of Salt Lake.
- That's why you're done to it.
- Yeah, done to it.
Born in the mountains, staying in the mountains.
- Born in the mountains, staying in the mountains.
Love that.
And your hulker has been here with latent?
- I had a little thing a little bit before.
Worked for a small architectural rendering visualization
studio for about almost seven years.
That's where I kind of learned
and just on the job training, learned drafting, CAD.
Kind of found the passion for the architectural side.
And then some interesting roundabout ways
made my way to construction.
Never thought I would and landed here and never looked back.
- How many times do we hear that?
- I was just gonna say, this is another intro
where at the beginning of the career,
it was in architecture and we figured out,
hey, go to the construction side, go to the builder side.
If we have any architects listening.
- Yeah, sorry.
- That's awesome.
Mr. Austin.
- Yeah, well, I didn't come from the architecture side.
So I guess my story's a little different,
but I interned here at latent as in marketing, actually.
My degree was in business and marketing.
And when I came over here, it was proposal development,
which wasn't quite marketing.
So I wasn't really into it.
It wasn't like a passion I had.
I think at the time, John was looking for some help
flying a drone.
So that's kind of how my career started here.
I mean, before that, I graduated from the
Weber State University.
And so, really, I didn't have a career before that.
I was just working odd end jobs and stuff.
So this has really been where I've been
the last nine years.
- You guys have been together the whole lot, right?
I mean, ride or dive brothers here?
- Yeah.
- Shake 'em, babe.
- Shake 'em, babe.
(laughing)
Shake 'em, make it so like you go before we ever do anything.
It's like, all right, shake 'em, babe.
- Yeah.
- Get it.
- That's awesome.
Well, it's clear we can tell y'all's vibe here
is pretty awesome.
Your office is pretty awesome.
And the people here, honestly, it's been fun.
We did an episode with your guys out in Nashville,
which was super fun.
Man, that was an awesome job just to get to meet
more of your team, what the work you guys are doing out there.
I mean, so a little lay in the land for a light
and obviously it's all like it's home for you guys here.
What are some of the other offices and other kind of places
that you guys call home and built?
- Yeah, we have 13 offices, I think.
Everywhere from California, across to Nashville,
where you went, we have locations in Florida.
We're now making a footprint in Texas a lot.
That's a big push for us.
Hawaii, we have two offices there, which is really cool.
- Trying to get out there.
We haven't recorded one of these yet out there.
- Yeah, we had a big drone reality capture project there
that just wrapped up.
Waikai.
We about four years ago, we merged,
we're acquired by Shrksha-Tone Building Group,
STO Building Group.
And so it's actually been awesome.
Just really broadened our footprint.
We're now part of 13 companies.
They have a really big presence,
kind of an interior world on the East Coast.
And so partnering that with the national reach
of the ground up, and we also have a really strong
interiors group, just partnering that up together
with STO made really good sense.
So it's been a while to ride,
but I think it's been really, really good for everybody.
- And that acquisition happened how long ago?
- Or when did you guys merge?
- I think 2020, it was the start.
- Yeah, 2020, 2021.
- It's almost like two thirds of the way
through your guys' time here.
You guys, what, double in size?
- Yeah, so when I started,
we were in our, I think, 15, 16.
We were still pretty big, Lane was pretty big,
then just had a huge growth, just went up the list.
And then, yeah, now with STO,
we're, I think, we're the largest privately held
general contractor in the US, which is awesome.
- Yeah, really good.
- That was awesome.
We're gonna dive around into it, fellas.
So season four, all things that we've been talking about
is field stuff.
Adam needs a little button here for his little saying
a feed the field, feed the field.
I just think it may be you get a T-shirt,
maybe we get some T-shirts made.
- Yeah, there needs to be some new swag
for season four, feed the field for sure.
- Feed the field.
- Kinda sounds like a football chant, you know?
I don't know.
- I'm curious to know--
- Be great if we run a fertilizer company.
- Feed the field.
- This is not an ag podcast, yeah.
But we could get that, if we really want to.
But what I'm really curious to know from you guys
is just your backgrounds with interacting with folks
in the field environment, think superintendents,
think field engineers, think folks that are on the front
lines that are building the projects that we, you know,
maybe sit behind a computer and see any different
perspective that we want.
But what I'm curious to maybe kick off and start with is
just your perception of technology,
well, your perception of fields,
perception of technology that I'm going to dive in here.
But like, what do you think the field's perception
of technology is today?
And how is that something that you guys see come across
your team and the things that you guys implement and use?
And yeah, I'm just curious of maybe your thoughts
on that, John, first.
- Yeah.
I think their perception today is very different than maybe
two, three years ago.
Just in my experience, technology was somewhat pushed
on them, whether they wanted it or not.
There was a lot of innovation and technology push
from the office side.
And they were somewhat telling the field people what to use
and, you know, this will make your job better
whether they thought it was or not.
And I don't know if there's a lot of support or backing
from the field to innovating change
because it had been pretty much stagnant for a long,
long time.
A lot of the most seasoned superintendents,
they'd been doing it a certain way
before this real big technology push.
And I don't think they wanted to see that change necessarily.
Fast forward to today, I think it's totally changed.
They're seeing the value, the cost of things is going down.
So it's not so much an effect on their bottom line
of their job, their individual project.
They can see it as a help.
And a lot of what I've had to do and a lot of the people
on our VDC team is waiting through the technology
that's gonna actually have a positive input
and getting that to the field.
And so now we're having more and an awesome
can speak a lot to this is it's more of a request
from the field to implement technology instead of a,
hey, you're gonna use this whether you want to or not.
- It's interesting you said two to three years.
'Cause I'm always, I think always curious
to hear different people's timeline of things.
I wanna get back to that a little bit, but yeah,
what would you say?
So just to summarize what you kind of said,
hey, before it seems like you were, it was being pushed.
Now it's almost your hearing and inquiring from things
that folks are pulling.
- Yeah, pulling feet to feel.
(laughing)
- Yeah, I mean, I think I'd agree 100% with John.
I think the biggest thing is when the field brings it
to you, it's less selling you have to do to them.
And so that's what's nice is because two or three years ago
it was, hey, check out this, hey, look how we can implement
this and the first question I get from a superintendent is
well, how much does that cost?
How's this gonna affect my schedule?
When they come to us with the idea, it's so much more
of a smooth transition to say, let us vet it for you,
let us figure out how it works and then we'll go to that.
A good example is we have a superintendent
who's now a construction manager came to me and said,
we're looking at some underground utility stuff
that we wanna implement.
Can you look into it for us?
So we looked into it, it was something that was
definitely viable to use and though the project
got kind of got put on hold, that started this snowball
effect where he went to some other superintendents and said,
hey, I've found some piece of software, a piece of something
to share, which has now kind of created the small pool
of superintendents in this business unit who talk
regularly about different pieces of technology.
So it's organic growth is really what you want
in that situation because we as individuals who come
from this space, it's easy for us to say, do this, do that,
this is why it works, this is why it's great,
but we live in this world and we breathe it for them,
they're living and breathing the application of driving
a schedule and making sure those things work.
And so you have to find the best way to insert that
into their workflow without distracting
what they're trying to do.
- But that, I think too, hearing both of your answers,
I resonate with that in a lot of ways, but from my experience
to tech, 10 years ago, up until the last few years,
it's because of that push, I think the key word
in a lot of this is education, where from, I don't know,
a long time ago, it was like VDC innovation would buy a tool,
vet it in an executive way and then push it to the jobs
and a lot of the time the project team didn't even know
it was there, right?
They didn't know why it was there.
And so there wasn't an effort in like training,
understanding what the ROI should be, understanding
how to implement and get the most value out of it.
And so I think that natural sort of return or the poll, right,
is a lot of people are not educating themselves
and saying, hey, that's an interesting application for this.
Go vet it and then let's see if it works.
- Yeah, we're really lucky at Leighton,
the executive leadership, we're broken into different
business units that specialize in different sectors
of construction.
And we have really forward thinking executive leadership
in those business units where I think they've seen
for the last 10 years that kind of push and,
hey, our competitors are innovating,
they're doing stuff, what can we do?
So they've somewhat allowed us to innovate and to test
and to try and to fail with different pieces of technology
till we've whittled it down to.
- Would you say they've encouraged that or just allowed it?
- It depends, kind of a mixture of both,
where I had to build the relationship where they trusted
that it was gonna have some sort of outcome
and not always every time it's been exactly
how we wanted it to be.
But that kind of mindset and that push from the top
has let the superintendents, the construction managers,
now they're seeing the push from above.
And they're like, okay, well, I probably should dig in
and start looking at like, drone to play.
How can we apply it?
They're looking for their own ways to use it,
which is letting us kind of grow
what we're able to provide to them.
- I have a follow up to one of Austin's points here
about superintendents coming to you guys with suggestions
or like, hey, what's this?
Where do you, where are they typically seeing those things?
Where are they getting those ideas or that inspiration
to come to you and say, hey, what's this?
- Yeah, I think they come from internet.
They're searching things, looking at stuff.
I think they go to trade shows and some sparks aren't interested.
And, you know, as a superintendent, you know,
I've never been one, but I've seen it all the time
and they're very busy, so they don't have time to sit down
and go over something and look at something.
So with this particular superintendent,
I'm talking about, you know, he said, hey,
can you look into this?
Can you follow up with a call?
Can you get a demo of it?
Can we see what it looks like?
And then can you basically write a report,
send it my way and tell me what you think.
And I think that goes to what John was saying.
You know, we've become a trusted source inside of late
and when it comes to these things, people rely on us
to come to them and, you know, bring that feedback to them
and say, here's what we found, here's how it's gonna work,
what do you think of this?
And so, yeah.
- What about the kind of internal recommendations,
meaning like, you told a story the other day about
one job hearing about it, the next job,
kind of inquiring about it, the next job.
You know, now they're using it full blown, like,
that obviously kind of crosses the loop from you,
like, hey, they're hearing about it from other people,
they're getting it vetted from other people,
like, talk about the catching fire effect from job to job.
Like, I think that's the most important part.
I think that's how you organically truly grow something.
You have to prove it on one project.
And then, so late, and I like to look at it like this,
we have a few champions, we call them, of tech, basically.
I know I can go to them and say, hey, let's try this,
let's look at doing this, because if it's successful
on their project, they're gonna, in turn,
start talking to other people about it.
And so, it really is a matter of vetting it
and making sure it works here in the office
or in a controlled environment,
and then taking it to that field application,
and then showing them how it's gonna work.
And I always tell the field people, like,
I'm not here on your project to add work,
or to add stress, I'm here to fit in
to what you're trying to do.
And if I can't get that part to fit in,
then I'm really a distraction
to what they're trying to get done.
- No, go for it.
- You didn't have one?
- Yeah.
- I got plenty.
I've been known to steal the mic here,
so that's what I always try to look at Adam and say,
hey, you go next.
I'll jump in.
Do you got any thoughts on that, Jon?
- Yeah, I just, I think one of the major pushes
and one of the benefits of having Austin
as kind of a dedicated resource to reality capture
is I think it, when I say three years,
is that was a big shift for us.
It went from housed within just VDC
in kind of a part-time application.
And when the field can't reliably have
a dedicated support person,
maybe they get a response of,
hey, I'm busy with a proposal,
or I'm busy with this XYZ doing other things,
it becomes kind of an afterthought.
And so shifting to, hey, he's dedicated,
he's always there willing to help support.
It really has helped to fill like latch on
'cause it's important.
- You kind of, thank you for going back to this question.
'Cause that's what I was actually kind of interested to know.
Two to three years, I mean,
the world kind of changed two or three years ago.
Reality capture kind of changed two or three years ago
from being, oh, that was nice to have to like,
oh, hey, I can't go onto my job.
And I can't bring other people onto my job.
Maybe I should use kind of this tool, but it,
would you say that's when things kind of shifted
a little bit of that push versus pull?
- Yeah, I wasn't even thinking of that,
but I guess, yeah, it's bright in line with it,
where technology, I mean, the simplest way is
before we didn't even trust Teams for like a meeting.
- Microsoft Teams, you're saying?
- Yeah, Microsoft Teams.
When we were doing a project, everybody was in person
and it had to be in person and it was around the table.
And, you know, construction is known to,
if you're not at your desk, it's like, where are you?
You know, what?
- It was a very weird feeling at that perspective.
- Yeah, you're not productive.
- I was a project engineer on that job
and all the project engineers got sent home.
Superintendent stayed on the job.
And there was this very interesting dynamic
for this next few weeks of like, superintendents
walk around like, well, where are the engineers?
- Yeah.
- Who's gonna answer all my questions?
- Yeah.
Yeah, so I think that strong push and buy in of,
we can use Teams and still be very productive
and sometimes even more productive.
I mean, I'm working with people across the entire country
every time zone, every single day.
You know, it wasn't as big of a shift for me,
but for a project manager or superintendent to trust,
and I'm gonna log into Drone Deploy,
I'm gonna see the production that happened that day
look at the progress, they trust that technology more
because they had to.
- Yeah, I wanna go back to a thought you had
of the dedicated resource.
I think that's an interesting point too,
where I think a lot of our listeners,
either are in positions from you guys,
either Tech or VDC background,
and have a hard time having maybe a leadership,
last season three, we kind of met with the leadership teams
of saying, hey, how does this go from like a hobby
to like a core part of your business to like,
hey, this is thriving.
And it's interesting to hear you talk about
having a dedicated resource,
'cause I think that's often neglected
of someone that that field team can go to and trust,
and you said it so well, it's like,
oh, I'm in a proposal, can't help.
Hey, I'm like busy with this other thing, can't help.
And like, you don't get those opportunities often
to answer those phone calls.
And the times I've been with you,
you've got a lot of phone calls, which is great.
I mean, it's interesting to hear that,
but like talk a little bit about how,
like did that just happen naturally,
where you're like, hey, I need a dedicated person
to answer some of these questions,
or was it just purely out of like,
hey, I'm getting too many things thrown my way,
like who's gonna help these folks?
And if no one, they're just not gonna get answers.
Yeah, I mean, our drone program, I say drone,
'cause it's, I mean, it started as a drone program,
and then it is now full-blown reality capture group,
like a full group within our company,
really it fostered from the pursuit.
It wasn't really field application at all.
It was, we're going to, the very first job
we ever flew at drone.
I was trying to think of, this morning,
I was trying to think of it, the year it was.
The Phantom, it was a Phantom one brand new.
No one had ever used it.
No legs, no like moving parts.
Every time you'd land it, it'd fall on the ground,
your blades would break.
I mean, it was so looking back, it was really bad.
We didn't have drone deploy,
and we needed to fly a site that we couldn't get Google Earth,
we couldn't get any resources,
and that was kind of what spurred it.
We used it for pursuit,
and then it grew to people in that pursuit,
then we're assigned to a hospital project
in Farmington, Utah, just north of Salt Lake,
and they wanted to see progress of it being built,
and that was the very first field application,
and so it was like, well, we need to purchase a drone
to do this, and I was here local,
and I was a local resource, but I had,
that was like number 20 of the items I needed to do that day,
and that's when I started going to marketing,
saying, do you have anybody?
'Cause I was kind of a team of one,
I didn't have the resources to get an intern,
I didn't have the resources to hire somebody.
It was, who do we have existing that could do this,
that we trust, and...
Austin has entered the chat.
Austin enters the chat.
Just wanna say, there's Austin.
And so he was here local, and it really started
on that project where it was every single week,
Mr. Superintendent was on us,
hey, I wanna see these updates,
and again, pushing from the field,
they were telling us, we are ownership,
we really like seeing these,
and so that started our looking into like,
how do we do this more automated drone deploy,
kind of came into the discussion,
and how long ago was it?
That was like 2015, 2016, 2015, 2016.
Not to date ourselves here, but I mean...
Man, I don't wanna get that on the tangent,
but remember we went to drone deploy days,
and Grant spoke at it when he was with his former company.
And we don't talk about that.
Well, I say that, I only say that
because I think it was you and Hunter,
just kinda sold it to us in a way that was organic,
and it wasn't the sales rep approach,
and I think we at the time looked up
to what you guys were doing,
and said, we gotta be this and better.
You know, so I guess we have you to thank for it,
so thank you.
- And here we are.
Scenic Salt Lake talking about 10 years ago.
But it's interesting to that point though,
I think what I heard you say was like,
hey, the problem statement in the pursuit phase
was we gotta like show how this is actually gonna be built,
and just visualize it different.
The problem in the construction phase
was how do we just like document
and show the progress of how this is going,
and production tracking, all that though.
Like, do you think the field thinks of technology
in that same way of like starting with a problem statement first,
or is it just so fast moving that it's like,
hey, anything that can help keep me afloat?
Like, 'cause we talked about that in previous seasons
of like how important it is to start with a problem statement
if you actually want to sustain innovation and technology,
but like, is that the same approach at a field level
of like starting with a problem statement,
or is it just like a, hey,
throw me the life preserver, man,
anything that can like help me solve this issue,
and problem statement may be a little too official
at a field level, but.
- Yeah, I mean, I think 100%.
We're fighting somewhat of the same battle
of what we were doing with drones,
where we were pitching and selling,
like we felt like we used car salesman,
like, hey, you guys, yeah,
put this in your budget, you need to fly drones,
'cause we saw the vision,
but the field didn't see that problem statement yet.
And it kind of organically, like Austin said,
it organically grew into, yeah,
this is gonna save us time, money, effort,
we're getting better data, all this kind of trickled in.
So now we're not selling drones,
but now as we're getting into like AI,
the progress tracking,
using this next phase of technology,
we're somewhat at it, the,
well, what's the problem statement?
What are we trying to fix that's broken?
And I don't know if we're quite solving that problem yet.
It's gonna come and it'll be organic,
but it's interesting how those phases come
because the field's not gonna fully adopt it
until they see, well, there really was a problem,
and this is gonna fix it directly.
- The full reason why, what the value actually doing it is?
- The question I was gonna ask you, though, is,
do teams feel like they want to be featured?
- Yeah, absolutely they do.
I think that's, anybody wants to be recognized
for something they've done.
I think that's an inherent trait as a human.
I think we wanna be praised or spotlighted
for something we've done, and so that's another caveat
to that, it's like, when I go to a project and say,
hey, we wanna highlight you, or social media wants to do a post,
unless it's like under an NDA, nobody says no to that,
and they love that opportunity to like,
showcase what they've done, because I think,
and Adam might be able to speak a little bit to this,
as a field person, I think you just get in the mode
of like, build, build, build, and maybe that recognition
doesn't really come until like the end of the project.
It's like, wow, this is beautiful what you built,
but throughout the duration of it,
maybe that doesn't come quite as often as it should
or someone would like, and so I think at the end of the day,
when it's like, hey, we're gonna feature you,
or hey, we're gonna talk about your project.
People will like, gush over that stuff as well.
- 'Cause I'm trying to think of like,
Adam and I talk about this a lot.
What are, what is the menu of value ads
that you provide the team?
Now, at a high level, that sounds really dumb.
Hey, I'm here as a resource, I'm here as a touch base,
all that kind of stuff, but like,
I think you bring up another one of just like recognition.
Like, how do you know, like, going through that list of like,
hey, what, to the listeners that are listening in here,
think through the value ads that you provide
those field teams, 'cause I think that often gets
just brushed over, it's like, oh, they're here to
sell me in a new car, the new shiny.
- Well, I'll say it's unique in my perspective
because I'm not, and those people who fly the drones for me
or not for me before their project,
like, they don't report to me, like, I can't tell them,
hey, you need to do X, Y, and Z,
I just tell them to best utilize this tool you need
or should do ABC.
And so, it's interesting that, you know,
once you gain the respect of them,
not that, again, not that they report to me,
but they'll listen to what I have to say,
and then they'll implement that.
And it's funny, or not funny, but more interesting
to hear them come back and say,
oh, my project team loved that suggestion.
And it's rewarding to me because they don't need
to recognize me for it.
I'm hoping that that young project engineer
is getting recognition for something he's doing
on that project site.
And I think that's the cool thing to see
is that grow like that.
- I think it boils down to the teamwork, right?
I mean, you may not be a dedicate,
we've said dedicated a lot in this conversation,
like you're not a dedicated project resource per se,
you don't sit there full time,
but you're still effectively part of that team.
And so, while that engineer or the superintendent,
they have a million things to do, right?
The to-do list is just ever growing.
You also can jump in and like supplement,
and be like, hey, that thing you're doing,
you could do it better doing this way.
Or here's a tool that will help you be more efficient
in getting that to-do list done.
And then to your point about highlighting a recognition
from the field perspective,
how we saw this funny,
the most field people are kind of allergic to the camera.
Like, see the camera come out,
see the office people with the cameras come out.
I'm like, I'm gonna be on the field.
I'll be in the board party,
I'll be doing something different.
- But to that though.
- But when we see the project highlighted,
when it's like, man, I'm still my last job with Turner,
it's won a million awards,
got DBIA, the project of the year,
like every time I see a post about that project on LinkedIn,
I'm like, like, and I feel good about that
because it's, I poured, you know,
so many years and hours into that job,
like that's what gets me going.
I don't need to see my face on it necessarily.
- Yeah, and I'll say to that,
I hear that same thing from everybody,
but it's amazing that once I get in front of that camera
and they're talking about the project,
you can instantly see the joy that they have from that.
And you also see the confidence that comes from that as well.
So I find it funny that superintendents or project man,
people will say, I don't wanna be on the camera.
- But then you get them there though.
- So I mean, they reluctantly get on and all of a sudden,
it's like, man, this one's our best soundbiter.
- It's mostly 'cause the rest of us are gonna make fun of them.
(laughing)
- That's pretty much why.
- Yeah, yeah, it is interesting though,
'cause that, you talk about internal growth as well.
Like, it's hard for superintendents to go visit other jobs,
right?
Like, I've seen some of the most growth inside companies
come from the social media page purely for their own company.
Like, think about that.
Like, their own company's social page has more value
for their own company than it does anything else.
Like, that seems a little backwards.
But it--
- It applies to me too.
- Yeah, right.
- I follow all of our social stuff
because I love seeing the progress
and you might have, you might not have had any part of piece
but especially if you did have just a tiny little part,
you're like, oh man.
- And like, I helped do something on that.
- And that's why I just think it's so fascinating
how, call it tech teams and marketing teams
are still so distant from each other.
'Cause they're so complimentary of each other.
Like, marketing needs content,
technology needs growth and adoption.
Those needs are like complimentary to themselves.
But that doesn't always happen.
- Well, and I'll say this, John's done a great job of that.
He's brought marketing, kind of, I wouldn't say into our fold
but he, I mean, you regularly talk with marketing
about different things and while yes,
there's still sometimes a disconnected time, some stuff
but I think a lot of what John has done
through his career here at Leiden is,
you know, proposal, not proposal development
but he's creating stuff for that proposal.
And so he's always worked hand in hand with marketing.
So at least from my perspective of that here,
we've always had a great relationship
and great working term, you know, great working environment
with our marketing team.
- In the marketing phase too, when I was in VDC as well,
like you oftentimes get those senior superintendent
who will come in and be part of that presentation team,
part of the pursuit team, that's also a spot
where the technology team gets to flex
some of those muscles on some of the more out there things.
Like you're trying to impress a client.
You also have a superintendent sitting here looking
at what's getting produced and man, I've never seen that
before, like I've already had that so many times
in that pursuit phase where it's like,
that thing's cool, how do I get that in the job?
Are we really gonna do that on this job
or is that just for the presentation?
- Yeah, I think that was an award for folks
in your guys' positions.
If you don't have a content calendar or a regular sync
with your marketing team, like you're missing out, right?
I mean, it's one of the hardest things for me
is getting my teams and the people I work with
to feed me the success stories.
Happens all day, every day.
They're big, they're small.
People shy away from being kind of getting that shout out.
It's a little bit like intimidating.
But getting people to feed me,
'cause we have a regular social media post
and just getting those stories is so hard.
And marketing is trying to get it,
they're trying to get it, they're trying to get it.
But then I have to step in and be like,
"Guys, please write just a paragraph."
Saying this cool thing you just did,
'cause you did something cool.
We just need to hear about it.
And so it's really difficult for people to look back
and be like, "Yeah, I am.
"I did do something cool.
"I deserve recognition for that thing I just did."
- I think it almost speaks a little bit
to kind of the current state of technology and innovation
is that when I'm around on the job site doing the job
and I use the photo or I use the model
or I use whatever the tool is for its intended purpose
and it works, it's like a little blip on the radar.
Like it worked with, should.
We're not at a point where we're saying,
"Hey man, tell me when the nail gun works properly."
- Yep.
- Because it just works every time, right?
If you're not hearing all the success stories,
at least from my opinion, it's like, because it worked.
- Yeah.
- Right.
It wasn't, you're mostly just gonna hear
the times it didn't work.
- That's true.
- Which is tough though.
I mean, that obviously provides the like,
the economy of tech is like,
you wanna keep growing and highlighting it,
but yet when it's doing its job, it's silent.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, that's tough.
- Kind of a good problem to have.
- It is a good problem.
- I'm with it.
- It's like, we struggle with it
when we're trying to come up with ROI calculations
for our software, it's like, tell us how great it was.
- Well, I didn't write down all the times I used it.
- Yeah.
- It's kind of a good.
- It worked.
- Yeah, it worked.
- I think that ROI statement can be a double it,
so in a time.
- Sure.
- Definitely.
To its own conversation.
I wanna land the plane here, fellas,
'cause I've been keeping you too long.
But thanks for chatting with us.
One, it's fun.
I think what's really exciting about your guys' team
is just how much you focus on the parts
that are needed at the right time.
I love it just even, I didn't know even your full
like starting in there, you having a need, then that girl.
Like, it's just interesting of like,
when timing and need really intersect themselves,
don't let that pass by.
Don't overlook that.
Like, take advantage of it.
I mean, you probably would say the same on jobs too,
and like, the timing and the need
intersect themselves.
Go out, drive out there, get on the site,
like, write it down, take someone to lunch here.
Like, and that's just what's really interesting
that I think those moments pass by,
and we kind of just like, ah, you missed it, you know?
And it's, they'll come back,
but don't miss out on those opportunities
that at least that's what I'm hearing from you guys.
Like, hey.
We're at a point where our clients
are very, very knowledgeable as well.
So not only do our field staff know what's out there,
our clients know it's out there.
So now, in their prerequisites,
or in their qualifications to even build the job,
they're outlining technology.
And if you're not, if you don't have your pulse on it
and you're not implementing already,
then you're gonna have to scramble to check
that box for your client.
Because there, I mean, it's, there's been a big shift.
Again, the last three, five years,
where it was kind of, we need BIM.
And even before that, it was, you know,
we were selling BIM as like this new thing.
That's the thing in the past.
BIM is not, you should be doing it, or you're behind.
Now it's a requirement in the, you know,
RFP stage.
It says, tell us about BIM and how you're using it.
And now there's the second question that's coming out is,
what's new and innovative?
Tell us about the other technologies that you're using.
And so, you just have to be on top of it.
You have to, it's here to stay.
It's not new.
And just, it's a constant battle to check that box.
- Yeah, it's crazy to think,
we'll be back in scenic salt lake,
and two, three more years and think like,
what are the things that are now becoming standard
that we like two years, like you kind of said,
the reality capture is like,
it's just kind of standard now for us.
But now as you move into the next kind of segment,
it's like, hey, just, you know, printing a site layout.
Is that like, I can't believe that wasn't a standard
two years ago, or hey, I'm sure some augmented reality.
So who knows, who knows.
- The robots are coming.
- The robots are coming.
Yeah, it is interesting to think about,
but fellas, thank you guys.
Any last thoughts, Austin, you wanna try?
- I'll just say, I appreciate you guys coming out here
and doing this.
To me, it's technology's awesome.
It's ever growing.
I'll highlight one thing real quick, Doc, with the drone.
We talked about this four or five years ago,
being something that we wanna see.
I think four or five years ago,
we wouldn't have been equipped to handle,
or take on, a Doc drone.
Fast forward to now, we have a project that wants it,
we're ready to implement it.
I think it's just, that's how you,
it speaks to the our organic growth over the years,
that people now know, like, drones no longer are
even questioned here at late, and it's, we're gonna do it.
So now that frees up the next step of, okay, well,
now we have interior capture, boom,
that's slid in under the non-question.
Just gives us more room to roam in the world
of unexplored technology out there,
and how we can use it.
- Yeah, and I think it puts the exciting part back
to the field side, is like, you guys now become
your standard menu of services, or standard,
or sort of the standard menu of practice,
these are just standards.
Now you can start to branch out,
and like you think of some really creative
restaurants out there, maybe diverging here,
but it's like, they got their core staples,
and now they're really innovating in the new
kind of things that could also feed
into that kind of core menu of things anyway.
I can put my chef hat on.
(laughing)
Fellows, thank y'all.
Much appreciated, appreciate you guys even
working through at some of the technical things,
doing these in person is so much more fun,
but it comes with some challenges,
and we're all in the way.
- Adapt and overcome.
Adapt and overcome.
- Very tough field.
(laughing)
- I don't know if I could--
- Feed the field with robots.
- There's not a tie to that one yet,
but appreciate you guys.
Thanks for tuning in with us,
and we'll see you guys here on the next one.
- Make sure to subscribe to Build Different
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and anywhere you
listen to podcasts.
Let's build this community together.
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